This week Ray and Jock are joined by Ludo Lacay, co-founder of pet insurance startup Napo, to talk about professional poker, the struggles of becoming a co-founder, and applying his experience from Facebook.

In this episode

0:00 Opening titles
0:14 Introduction to Ludo
2:50 Napo pitch
5:07 Vitality and next-gen health insurers
6:35 Transition to co-founder
8:06 Lessons from working at Facebook
10:09 High trust, high transparency
12:47 Move fast (but don’t break things)
16:08 What are you most excited about?
17:27 Being surprised by your customers
19:00 Comparison sites’ similarities to adtech
20:15 Ludo’s 3 tips for direct marketing strategy
23:31 Hiring is so important, and time-consuming
26:42 Ludo’s approach to hiring
27:42 Who’s your moral support?
30:14 The prickliness of founders
31:57 What to do with bad hires
35:11 Why ‘Napo’?
38:49 Poker as a science
43:16 Closing credits

About The Pig Wrestlers

Ray Rafiq is the founder of increasingly larger businesses: Regent Street Cinema, Baker Street Bakery, Wigwamm, GetAgent, Unmortgage.

Jock Busuttil is the founder of Product People Limited, a freelance head of product, author and conference speaker, with over two decades’ experience helping technology companies. (

Recorded on 7 May 2021
Music: Crazy Glue (Instrumental Version) by Josh Woodward (CC-BY 4.0)