Ray and Jock reach the iconic chapter of the book and chat about why it’s fruitless to wrestle with pigs, the harsh realisation that sometimes you are in fact the pig, and how that taints your ability to lead.

In this episode

0:00 Opening titles
0:14 What if Biden hadn’t wrestled with a pig?
1:30 Don’t get up close to a brawler
3:24 Pigs suck all the air out of a room
4:55 Avoid them like the plague
5:36 We all suffer from the same human condition
9:16 Always carry a Palm Pilot
9:58 The ‘struggling’ sales technique
11:39 Vulnerability as a leader
13:01 Piecing together what it means to be a good leader
14:40 Getting leadership wrong
16:39 In Ray’s defence
19:20 Focus on outcomes – the change we want – not micromanaging
20:49 Exploration and learning when uncertainty is highest
23:40 Making it easier to experiment and learn
26:38 Closing credits

About The Pig Wrestlers

Ray Rafiq is the founder of increasingly larger businesses: Regent Street Cinema, Baker Street Bakery, Wigwamm, GetAgent, Unmortgage.

Jock Busuttil is the founder of Product People Limited, a freelance head of product, author and conference speaker, with over two decades’ experience helping technology companies. (jockbusuttil.com)

Recorded on 22 January 2021
Music: Crazy Glue (Instrumental Version) by Josh Woodward (CC-BY 4.0)